Comments - Talk
... by: Roy
Just realized there is another Naked Quad in Box 1 in the Naked Quad example (2,3,4,7) in cells A2, A3, B3 & C3! Alas, it doesn't really help reduce any other cells. With two Naked Quads in the Box, the only other number is 9 which has already been identified in cell C2.
... by: Roy
The logic of cell B2 being 1 or 8 for the Naked Quads section is derived from the fact one of the cells A1, B1 & C1 will contain either a 1 or 8 but not both as cell H1 will have the other. Cell B2 is the only other cell in this block that has either of these two numbers. I guess this would be a hidden pair within a pair of naked quads.
... by: Roy
Having reduced cell B2 to possibles 1 or 8, cell B1 can be reduced to possibles 5 or 6 (hidden pair with cell B4) and then H1 must be 8 as would be the case for B2! A1, B1 & C1 have been reduced to a naked triple (1,5,6) with a {2,2,2} formation!
... by: Roy
I believe you can go one step further with cell B2 in the Naked Quads example. It will have a value of either 1 or 8 given the restrictions from cell H1.
... by: Anon
i am really thankful to you for presenting this.really very useful content about sudoku solving. i am impressed.
... by: Peter Rogers
Hi What a fabulous website. This is what I have been looking for for years a real how to solve sudokus. I am stunned at its teaching capacity.
... by: gerhard, sweden
Assume that a triplet consists of the three bigrams (example) 56, 67, 57, occuring in one row.
Let´s say that the bigrams occur in region 1 (bigrams 56 and 67) and in another region (57).
It is obvious that they work the same as any true triplet, but less obvious that the figure 6 can be eliminated from the remaining squares of region 1.
If this is described somewhere else, please excuse me for commenting.
... by: Pieter, Newtown, Australia
Hi Andrew I always love to double-check my solution to a puzzle using your solver. I got this one by XY-Chains but damn it! I missed the naked & hidden Quads, yet again! I usually do, damn quads! :-(
I noticed you don't have an example for quads in your "Pick an Example" drop-down list. Want to include this one?
LOAD EXAMPLE
It's from the Sydney Sun-Herald of 2011-09-4 (Auspac Media for the puzzle). You may need to check with them re copyright.
Thanks as always for your great solver! Ciao, Pieter
Andrew Stuart writes: Excellent example, thank you for sharing. I don't think I can use it in my example list but it can be linked here as you have stated the credits.
... by: Charlie R
Wow! What a site. I landed here by chance. I have been exploring sudoku myself, using my own excel-based solver, convinced that there must be a complete rule-based solution. I had found many of the rules myself, but this is a much more complete set, beautifully explained and illustrated. I bow to you, Oh Master
... by: Dayanandan
Landed on this site by chance. The joy experienced is such that I want to tell you this at once. This clears my doubt fully. I like this illustration as well.
Regards Dayanandan
... by: hutch
i thought i could write this in excel and i did get some parts but soon realized the complexity and have stopped(at least 4 now). the stepwise debugger style is the bomb. i hope to improve my sudoku but i think i will spend a good bit of time just admiring this work. many thanks for the obvious labor of love. hutch pawleys
... by: Andrew
Almost a year later, a response to Mike, who said:
"I notice that Sudoku Solver does not exhaustively identify all naked pairs as seen in the following puzzle.
http://www.sudokuwiki.org/sudoku.htm?bd=68050041905041000604160000000 9100040300700080400203960204871600000060104106000008
In row E the 2,5 pair in columns 3 and 7 should reduce cell E9 to just 1."
I don't understand why you say that. There's not such a naked pair there, and E9 has already a 3... Perhaps the sudoku saved with that id changed?
... by: Blaster88
Non seulement c'est génial mais en plus je bosse mon anglais !
... by: Rob Butler
I just found this website a few hours ago and lost the whole afternoon to playing with it. It is great. This is exactly what I have been looking for, i.e., not just an answer to a tough puzzle, but the LOGIC to solve it. Thanks. I will be coming here a lot !
... by: John
After reading this over, I think I understand why naked triples (and naked quadruples and quintuples). If you understand how naked pairs work, look at naked triples this way: When you solve one of the 3 cells, the other two cells become naked pairs or single. Then all three numbers in a naked triple can be eliminated from the other cells.
For example: (123) (123) (123) Make any of the cells a 1: (123) (1) (123) Drop 1 from the other cells: (23) (1) (23) You can delete 1 from all other cells, because it is used. You can eliminate 23 from the other cells because it is a naked pair.
The same works for other triples: (123) (12) (23) If the middle cell is 1: (23) (1) (23) Eliminate 23 from other cells because it is a naked pair. and so forth...
... by: Michael
To all who are having difficulty understanding this...
A naked pair shows the same two values and only those values in two different fields (in the same column, row, or three by three square). This shows that those two fields each must have one of the two values (there are no other values to choose from). Since a value cannot occur more than once in any one column, row, or three by three square) the two values can be safely removed from the other clues since it is know that they must appear in the place of the naked pair.
Naked Triples and Quads simply extend the same logic to 3 and 4 values.
... by: Mike
I notice that Sudoku Solver does not exhaustively identify all naked pairs as seen in the following puzzle.
http://www.sudokuwiki.org/sudoku.htm?bd=68050041905041000604160000000 9100040300700080400203960204871600000060104106000008
In row E the 2,5 pair in columns 3 and 7 should reduce cell E9 to just 1.
Andrew Stuart writes: The solver is working correctly but the behavior in these cases is worth explaining. As Naked Pairs are detected the removal effects are applied. This might occasionally stop another Naked Pair being found since some numbers have be removed. The solver *could* detect all NPs and then apply the results simultaneously but for speed and space I have chosen not to. Usually the next set of NPs will be discovered in the next round. This applies to most of the basic strategies.
... by: Pete
I've been looking for help and this is the first I've seen that looks like it will help. Bring on the 6 star puzzles. I'm ready(I think).
... by: CS VIDYASAGAR
Excellent explanation with very useful examples to make one understand difficult concepts naked pairs and naked triples. Thanks for keeping the aritcle simple and easily understandable.
... by: Harpo
I agree with buc; with the information given it still seems rather illogical to remove the other candidates.
... by: Werty
My explanation of naked triples. On the example. imagine that you put 5 in one of the columns 2, 3 or 4. That will leave only 7 and 8 as candidates in three columns - 1, 8 and 9. Clear? You will get to similar wrong position when you put 8 in column 4.
... by: Carol Kennedy
I am just learning this game and so enjoy it. But I do not always understand your lessons. For example, if you have 4,8 4,8 in a row then you can eliminate the other 4,8s in that row, but can I also erase all the other 4,8s in the column and the entire box as well? Thank you.
... by: Curt Klemenz
I'm in same boat...having ultimate difficulty spotting hidden pairs and triples. When they are pointed out, .... I see them.
I suspect there is a mental algorithm for focusing attention toward the specific candidates, but no luck so far.
Anyone with a suggestion that's willing to share?
... by: Bruce D
An explanation on how the naked tripple works. As in the example shown, we have (7,8) (5,7,8) and (5,7,8). The first cell can contain a 7 or an 8. That means that the other two cells will then contain a 5 and 8 in the case the first one is a 7, or a 5 and 7 if the first cell is an 8. By having the last two cells being conditional on the other, we can eliminate the 5, 7, 8 from all other cells in the row.
... by: Rockmelon
I have been an accountant for 35 years (which means nothing) and I can't see the relationships among these numbers! I have a really difficuolt time understanding this and I love to do Sudoku!
Any suggestions??
... by: BobCarl
As you know, any row, column or box contains nine cells.
When there are only 3 different numbers that can fit into three of the nine cells, that automatically eliminates their use in the remaining six cells. Hence, they can be removed as candidates from those "other cells".
... by: buc
Re naked tripple: I would appreciate you explaining the logic of removing any of the three candidates from other cells.
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