... by: tofubob

In your last example of a Hidden Quad {1,4,6,9}, could you not have picked {3,5,7,8} just as well?

... by: Leo J

In the first Hidden Quad puzzle:
- why no "4" in cell J7? (how did you know it CAN'T be a 4?)
- why no "2" in cell G7?

thanks/i understand if you don't have time to answer this.

... by: Nathan

I have a question. So, I was reading through all of your startegies, and I started finding 12x12, 16x16, even monstorous 20x20 and 25x25 sodukus online. I just want to know if the principles for any of your strategies change when puzzles get larger and/or more complex.

... by: alan g

is there such a thing as an ambiguous sudoku puzzle?
I recently encountered an "easy" puzzle but it proved to be the hardest one I've met.
I got as far as I could with it but couldn't make any further progress until I found this page which told me about hidden pairs etc..
I eventually solved it but the answer I obtained was slightly different to the one given in the paper.
however every row column and mini grid in my solution, each contained the numbers 1-9, which is surely the definition of the correct solution.
the trouble with this particular puzzle is that there are many ways to apply the hidden pairs to, and I think the solution depends on where you start

... by: Liz

If "hidden" means that each member of a set of n candidates only occurs in a set of n squares in a unit, then if there are N already solved squares in that unit, does it not follow that the remaining 9 minus N minus n candidates must form a *naked* set? Since, otherwise, one of the n candidates would have to occur in at least one of those remaining squares?

Is it not generally easier to find a naked set than a hidden one, even if the naked set is a 5, 6, or even 7-tuple?

In your first example above, I would have noticed first that 4,7,8,9 form a naked quad, making a triple out of 2,5,6. Even in your last example, 2,3,5,7,8 form a fairly obvious naked quint.

Because of this I'm having trouble understanding why "hidden candidates" is even discussed as a separate strategy.

Or are there cases where a hidden set does not have a complementary naked set? (which depends, perhaps, on exactly how "hidden" is defined)

... by: pyorokun7

Never mind, it does detect it, but only after elminating a lot of candidates in the column with several advanced techniques.

Also, by the time it detects it, one of the 6 is already eliminated

Hidden Quad 3/4/5/7 in Col 7, on cells [E7,F7,G7,H7]
- removes 6 from H7

(the other 6 was removed by the APE that eliminated the 4 in J7, creating the Hidden Quad itself)

So probably it should be updated, or maybe should use another example.

By the way, is there a reason why the last row is J, instead of I?

... by: pyorokun7

http://www.sudokuwiki.org/sudoku.htm?bd=650087024000649050040025000570438061000501000310902085000890010000213000130750098

Your solver (I guess after an update) no longer detects this Hidden Quad in Col 7; after the Naked Pair in Box 3 of 3/7, it jumps to X-Wing

... by: Hamza Zaidi

I don't get the last sentence. What is a complimentary hidden quad?

... by: curious

@Peter Heichelheim
>If there is a hidden triple it must be in a unit with two or less solved squares.

Can anyone explain the reasoning behind this? I feel like it's less an inherent truth and more along the lines of:

"If a unit has >2 solved squares then the solver probably already indirectly eliminated the hidden triple by using some other strategy elsewhere in that unit".

I REALLY want to understand this insight.

... by: KDot93

***In response to YBB (below)***: I believe a "hidden quad" is just a "naked quad" with an interfering number - in the case of the example, the possibility of a 6 in cells G7 and H7 made that quad into a "hidden quad". However for your question, since there is no interfering number, A7,B7,C7 and C9 form a "naked quad" instead (as well as B9 and C8 forming a "naked pair").

PS: I'm new to advanced sudoku-ing/this website, so if that's an incorrect explanation/there is a direct "reply" function, please let me know! (somehow...). Or perhaps if Andrew could make an "answer/reply" function so he doesn't have to respond to all the comments, that would be great!

PPS: Really awesome website!

... by: YBB

With reference to first example on Hidden Quads, why is 1,6,8,9 in the top right box not a hidden quad?

... by: Jwamyr

I have made an observation that any time a hidden pair or triple or quad is found, you can also find a naked N in the remaining cells of thathe set. For example, a naked set of 5 can be found in d5, e4, e5, e6, and f5 in the example given for the hidden quad. I have not proven that this is true always but I believe that it is.

... by: Didi

Sorry, I have to correct my last comment a bit:
If you can use a single or pair for pointing, it's regardless of whether it's hidden or naked. The thing that I wanted to point out is that if you've found "some stuff" inside a block ("claiming", "pointing", "naked/hidden pair"), then you always should keep your focus where you currently are, to watch out for more of that "stuff" that could be found now, either beeing human, or a computer solving the riddle.
P.S.: Your site here is brilliant, thank's a lot!

... by: Didi

I think it should be mentioned that a hidden pair leads always, after processing, to a naked pair. Although this is a platitude, there's reason for being aware of this change. In some cases the resulting naked pair can be used as a pointing pair.

The fact is also interesting to programmers: If you want efficient computer code, this check can be done immediately and more effortlessly, rather than checking again with an extra-algorithm.

... by: Doc

In your hidden pair example in the blue boxes what determines it is 2,4 and not 2,6 and in the red boxes why 3,7 not 3,9.

... by: Peter Heichelheim

There is a clue which will help someone in spotting hidden triples. If there is a hidden triple it must be in a unit with two or less solved squares.

... by: Y.Sato

Your example of sudoku is very interesting, but the logic to find a hidden triple is hard to me.

In the example of Hidden Triples on this page,
I found two candidates of Hidden Triples in column 9 according to my rule.

A: { {4, 7, 8}, {4, 7, 8}, {4, 8} }

B: { {4, 8, 9}, {4, 8, 9}, {4, 8} }

Your solution is the candidate A.
Why is the candidate B not a solution ?
Would you please teach me the reason ?

Best regards,
Yoshihiro Sato

... by: tu_79

I must agree with Chuck. It is really difficult for a human to detect hidden triples, and otrher strategies like simple chains are more easy to spot. Therefore, I would be great if we could unselect Hidden triples/quads from your solver.

... by: ad.joe

Hello Andrew, this time a naming suggestion to differentiate between basic and advanced techniques:

"ONE DIMENSIONAL":

As can easy be seen in example 2 of the Hidden Pairs, it only deals with column 7!

So it's like this:
Basic strategies deal with only on row, one column OR one box, therefore are working ONEDIMENSIONAL! While advanced techniques/strategies are working moredimensional: in more than one row AND column AND work.

And I've never read such a sentence "anywhere", what do YOU say?
Besides a hidden subset is easier to be understood (for most people) as an x-wing, it can still hard to be found, becaus one has to look up the occurences (2 for instance) of the numbers in this one dimension.

... by: m&mjabb

hidden triples example - this wouldn't be a triple but in row 9 why couldn't the 4,7,8,9....4,7,8....4789....48 be used as quad? is it because of the 9 in row J?
(beginner sudoku player)

... by: amarabavani@gmail.com

Fantastic page. Your explanations are simple and the working user-friendly. keep up the good work and good luck.

... by: adivandhya

i tried to download the website so that i can read it while im offline, nw it says i am a bot..wht should i do to get the access back?

... by: Ritesh

Firstly , thanks 4 Sharing the site ...
Give me more examples to understand hidden Quads

... by: Chuck Watson

Great site! I have learned to solve much harder puzzles by studying this site.

What I wanted to point out is your last example of a hidden quad actually also shows a naked quintuple. To me the naked quintuple is easier to see.

... by: Joseph Badillo

Very nice site, very helpfull.
Question regarding making a mistake:
Your almost to the end and you find out that a 6 and a 9 does have been repeated. Are there short cuts you can take to find out where you made a mistake other than starting over?

... by: Walsh

Bill,
From that example you can see that the 4 has to be part of the hidden triple since it has to be in one of those two squares. The three and one cannot be used because it has possiblilities in other places in that block. A Hidden triple will have a sequence of numbers that are in only three boxes in a row, column, or block.

... by: Jim R

Bill: the idea of the Naked Triple is that the three numbers (4/8/9 in this example) only appear in exactly three squares. You can find some combination of 1/8/9 in all seven unsolved squares. 1/3/9 also cannot be the triple because there is a 1, 3 or 9 in all seven unsolved squares.

... by: Bill

I am looking at the hidden triple example. Your results is 4/8/9; however, why can't the hidden triple be 1/8/9 or 1/3/9?

... by: David Harkness

Lloyd, this strategy allows you to eliminate the other numbers from the cells containing the hidden pair/triple/etc. It does not allow you to remove the numbers in the pair/triple from other cells.

The key is that the three numbers involved in the triple must occur in only three cells. In your example, 124 is not a triple because 2 is a possible in 5 cells. Each number must be a possible in at most 3 cells (2 for a hidden pair, 4 for a hidden quad, etc).

Naked Pairs is where you eliminate the numbers in the pair from other cells.

Andrew, the section on triples mentions "three pairs" of numbers, but often one of the cells will contain all three numbers. Is "pairs" here simply a copy/paste error from the section above, or does it have some other significance? I understand that sometimes the numbers appear in pairs in 3 cells, but that's not necessary.

Also, the first paragraph has an extra word: "hidden in in the squares".

... by: Lloyd Pape

Hi, I get confused. I have a row: 24,14,1245,257,2567,3,1267,8,9 ,..I would like to group cols 1,2 and 3 with a tripple, 24,14,124,delete the 5 in col 3,...then, delete the 2 incol4, the2 in col 5 and the 12 in col 7,..so that I end up with a tripple ,1,2,4, another tripple 5,6,7 and 3,8,9,...does this work,..if so , are the tripples naked or hidden,...thanks for your info to date,....regards,...lloyd

... by: Sarah

Hi Andrew,
Great site. I'm terrible at spotting hidden triples. Any tips, hints on becoming better at this?
Thanks!
Sarah

... by: csvidyasagar

You have given an excellent example of Hidden Pairs, Hidden Triples and Hidden Quads. But the example you quoted of Mr Klaus Brenner of Hidden Quad, I suppose is NOT Correct. For hidden pairs, the digits must appear only in two cells like you correctly shown as 58 in your example. The digits 5, 8 do not appear in any other cell of the box. In Hidden Triples of digits 4, 8, 9 lie in only three cells and none of them appear in any other cell in the box. Similarly in Hidden Quads of your example, the digits 3,5,6,7 appear only in four cells in the Box and do not appear in any other cell of Column 8. But it is not so in the example cited of Mr Klaus Brenner. May be I am wrong or my understanindg of Hiddens is wrong. So can you explain how Hidden Quads are there in the example of which you have high lighted some cells.

... by: robin smith

Hi, What a great site . it's so helpful when I really get stuck with a puzzle. One minor point . . would it not be possible to have the original numbers in the puzzle in a different colour so it is more easy to spot the ones that get added as the solution unfolds.

Just a thought.

But it's stil a great site.

Robin Smith

... by: Maurice Popple

I'm new to Sudoku and am quite bewildered when I manage to solve one.
Questions: (1)How many unique (ie. one solution) puzzles exist in the 9X9 Sudoku matrix (I tried to calculate and got a brute of a binominal I could not resolve)? (2)What is the minimum number of given entries at the start to uniquely define a puzzle?
Many thanks, Maurice

... by: Chuck Bruno

Hello Andrew,

I have written several times but I must repeat "This is a great site". That being said, I have a question:

How do you determine what the difficulty level should be for a given stratagy?

I personally find that Pointing Pairs, Box/Line Reduction, X-Wing, and Unique Rectangles, are much easier to spot than Hidden Triples. When I get stumped on a Sudoku, I import it into your Solver, uncheck stratagies I don't usually look for, and step through it. In most cases, I find that I simply overlooked something silly. In some cases however, the Solver finds a hidden double or triple. Because these can't be turned off like the more difficult stratagies, I can't force the Solver around it to see if one of the other stratagies that I normally use, would allow the puzzle to be solved without using the naked double or triple.

In summary, I would like to be able to selectively turn off the "easier" stratagies just as can be done with the tougher ones.

Thanks for your time,

Chuck Bruno

... by: Roger

Don't understand "from a library of 18,000"